Non-Destructive Testing of Dalle de Verre Windows by Fernand Léger and Alexandre Cingria in Switzerland

Round 1

Reviewer 1 Report

The manuscript is focused on the application of non-destructive techniques to characterize Dale de verre.

It is presented the results of each technique but they are difficult to understand for people who do not know anything about physics. I recommend explaining better what we are seeing in the figures.

In addition, the results are not compared with analyses in other windows. Is it the first time that the techniques are applied to stained glass windows? Why these techniques and not others were chosen?

In Conclusions, I recommend making a table comparing the different techniques, if they make punctual analyses or not, what type of information you obtain, if it is needed to access from both sides or not, its usability, its price...

Other questions:

Fig 9 a looks like a normal picture and not the result of ultrasonics. I think the caption should be 

it is not discussed comparing it 

Line 23, there is a mistake in a reference

Table 1, the measurements should be in mm

Line 303, there is an error in the figure name.

Line 351, some text is missing

Line 500, there is a reference without number

 

Author Response

Response to Reviewer 1

The manuscript is focused on the application of non-destructive techniques to characterize Dale de verre.

It is presented the results of each technique but they are difficult to understand for people who do not know anything about physics. I recommend explaining better what we are seeing in the figures.

In addition, the results are not compared with analyses in other windows. Is it the first time that the techniques are applied to stained glass windows? Why these techniques and not others were chosen?

In Conclusions, I recommend making a table comparing the different techniques, if they make punctual analyses or not, what type of information you obtain, if it is needed to access from both sides or not, its usability, its price...

Other questions:

Fig 9 a looks like a normal picture and not the result of ultrasonics. I think the caption should be 

it is not discussed comparing it 

We  have changed the text as this was obviously misleading. We now mention explicitly that the ultrasonics result is from 4 locations only.

 

Comments on the Quality of English Language

Line 23, there is a mistake in a reference

There is no reference in line 23.

Table 1, the measurements should be in mm

There was a mixture of m and mm in the text. We changed everything into meters for consistency.

Line 303, there is an error in the figure name.

We changed the figure caption as it was misleading.

Line 351, some text is missing

We have completed this sentence.

Line 500, there is a reference without number

We checked this but we did not find a reference without number. Maybe this problem is due to a file conversion between different formats. We will try to make sure that there are no such problems with the revised version of our paper.

Author Response File: Author Response.docx

Reviewer 2 Report

The characterisation of and identification of damage of dalle the verre windows in their structural, physical and climatic context is based on the existing background of ancient glass studies. The present material is modern origin.

1.         explain the capability of used GPR to measure the thickness of objects and to locate built-in objects, such as rebar. The limitation in thickness measurement below is it enough for the purpose?

2.         Line 303: 5.4. Rebar corrosion Error! Reference source not found: What is this?

3.         Line 313: Error! Reference source not found. (right)…????

4.         Whatever (electrical etc.) method did not work or needs further investigation put it in appendix. It should not spoil the flux of the text in the main article.

5.         Introduction to glass corrosion and GPR should include most updated references, eg: Nikolaos Zacharias, Eleni Palamara, Rania Kordali and Vanessa Muros  (2020) ARCHAEOLOGICAL GLASS CORROSION STUDIES: COMPOSITION, ENVIRONMENT AND CONTENT and Rania A. Eloriby , Wael S. Mohamed , Ahmed S. Alkaradawi (2022) evaluation of the impact of silica and alumina nanocomposites in consolidation and protection of corroded glass from early islamic period in egypt: an multiscientific experimental and analytical study.

6.         For characterization you could see: Panagopoulou, A., Lampakis, D., Christophilos, D., Beltsios, K., Ganetsos, Th. (2018) TECHNOLOGICAL EXAMINATION OF IZNIK CERAMICS BY SEM-EDX, RAMAN, XRD, PLM: A CASE STUDY.

7.         About GPR high resolution you could see: Ş. Aydıngün  et al., 2020 HIGH-RESOLUTION GROUND PENETRATING RADAR INVESTIGATION OF YEREBATAN (BASILICA) CISTERN IN ISTANBUL (CONSTANTINOPLE) FOR RESTORATION PURPOSES, and Alexakis E. , Lampropoulos K. , Doulamis N.,  Doulamis A. , Moropoulou A.  (2022) deep learning approach for the identification of structural layers in historic monuments from ground penetrating radar images.

Author Response

Response to Reviewer 2

 

The characterisation of and identification of damage of dalle the verre windows in their structural, physical and climatic context is based on the existing background of ancient glass studies. The present material is modern origin.

 

1. explain the capability of used GPR to measure the thickness of objects and to locate built-in objects, such as rebar. The limitation in thickness measurement below is it enough for the purpose?

We have added a sentence describing the physical basics for resolution and possible depth of inspection.

 

2. Line 303: 5.4. Rebar corrosion Error! Reference source not found: What is this?

This problem does not exist in our text. Maybe this problem is due to a file conversion between different formats. We will try to make sure that there are no such problems with the revised version of our paper.

 

 

 

3. Line 313: Error! Reference source not found. (right)…????

This problem does not exist in our text. Maybe this problem is due to a file conversion between different formats. We will try to make sure that there are no such problems with the revised version of our paper.

 

 

3. Whatever (electrical etc.) method did not work or needs further investigation put it in appendix. It should not spoil the flux of the text in the main article.

This is certainly an option. However, as this paper is also aiming at providing an overview of NDT-methods that may be useful for other dalle de verre windows, we suggest to leave the description in the main text.

 

5. 5. Introduction to glass corrosion and GPR should include most updated references, eg: Nikolaos Zacharias, Eleni Palamara, Rania Kordali and Vanessa Muros (2020) ARCHAEOLOGICAL GLASS CORROSION STUDIES: COMPOSITION, ENVIRONMENT AND CONTENT and Rania A. Eloriby , Wael S. Mohamed , Ahmed S. Alkaradawi (2022) evaluation of the impact of silica and alumina nanocomposites in consolidation and protection of corroded glass from early islamic period in egypt: an multiscientific experimental and analytical study.

 

6. For characterization you could see: Panagopoulou, A., Lampakis, D., Christophilos, D., Beltsios, K., Ganetsos, Th. (2018) TECHNOLOGICAL EXAMINATION OF IZNIK CERAMICS BY SEM-EDX, RAMAN, XRD, PLM: A CASE STUDY

We have added the suggested reference concerning glass corrosion (Zacharias et  al.), although this is not  a main subject of our paper.

 

7. About GPR high resolution you could see: Ş. Aydıngün et al., 2020 HIGH-RESOLUTION GROUND PENETRATING RADAR INVESTIGATION OF YEREBATAN (BASILICA) CISTERN IN ISTANBUL (CONSTANTINOPLE) FOR RESTORATION PURPOSES, and Alexakis E. , Lampropoulos K. , Doulamis N.,  Doulamis A. , Moropoulou A.  (2022) deep learning approach for the identification of structural layers in historic monuments from ground penetrating radar images.

There are different approaches for the handling of GPR data and images. We prefer to deal with data, as we know many details concerning the characteristics of the data,  for example the frequency content. This allows us to process the data based on this knowledge. Image analysis is certainly another useful approach. However, as we are not dealing with image analysis in this paper, the mentioned seems to be of limited relevance.

 

Author Response File: Author Response.docx

Reviewer 3 Report

The paper presents the results of analyses of "dalle de verre windows", a particular type of stained glass consisting of glass and reinforced concrete, which has been widespread since around the middle of the 20th century. The aim of the study is to compare a number of non-destructive analysis techniques to determine the state of conservation of these windows, which have been scarcely studied to date. The comparison was carried out on two examples of "dalle de verre windows", both made in Switzerland but by two different artists.

 

Abstract

In my opinion, the abstract could be improved. For example, the abstract mentions non-destructive methods generically, but does not make explicit what they are. When I agreed to be a reviewer, as I could only read the abstract, I imagined that it was talking about infrared spectroscopy or X-ray fluorescence, techniques in which I am an expert, but I only found out later that it referred to electrical, magnetic, etc. techniques. The same applies to the choice of keywords.

 

Introduction

The introduction is clear and complete and presents well this particular type of artwork, which is certainly little known. The part on damage is also complete and interesting, as is the presentation of the research objectives, which are very clear. The description of the specific case studies investigated here is also interesting.

 

Methods

This section presents all the non-destructive techniques used.

Is it possible to use the expression 'non-invasive' as well as 'non-destructive' techniques here? Most of these seem to be, but I am not an expert on these techniques so I ask the authors to clarify this.

Generally speaking, perhaps there are some experimental parameters missing that are useful for replicating measurements by others.

 

Results and Discussion

This section presents the results of the analyses carried out quite clearly, while, in my opinion, the comparison between the various techniques does not emerge sufficiently. For this reason, I cannot find a proper analysis protocol to refer to for future investigations on this same type of art material. In my opinion, it would be very useful to find instead a practical scheme to follow, which also really takes into account the cost and time of analysis.

 

Conclusions

As with the discussion, the results of the study do not clearly emerge, in the sense that there is a lack of an operational protocol that can be followed when analysing this same type of material.

 

Bibliography

The bibliography is adequate, self-citations amount to about 18% of the cited sources.

 

Language

The paper is well written, there are only a few typos or errors to be corrected.

 

Some specific comments are given below:

 

Title

Please check and standardise the capital letters in 'dalle de verre'.

I think the word 'IN' should be written in lower case.

 

 

Lines 18-19

"Various non-destructive methods have been tested on two prominent dalle de verre examples"

What are these non-destructive methods? It might be interesting for a reader to know right from the abstract.

Are they also non-invasive methods? Please discuss this in more detail in the abstract or the paper.

 

 

Line 231

"infrared range [33][0]."

Please check the reference numbers.

 

Figure 9

If I have understood correctly, Figure 9a does not show the thicknesses obtained with ultrasonics ('Figure 9 shows the uncalibrated thickness of the Annunciation medallion obtained with ultrasonics (left, a)', lines 292-293), but is a simple image indicating the 4 points where the analysis was performed. If I have understood correctly, the text and caption are misleading.

 

Lines 303 and 313

Warning, references are missing.

 

Lines 316-317

"However, this assumption has not yet been confirmed and needs to be tested by further investigations."

What other investigations could be done to investigate the matter further?

 

Lines 351-352

"In Fribourg, the electrical resistivity of the was very high suggesting complete carbonation."

Please check this sentence because it seems incomplete.

 

Lins 367-368

"The inspections have provided information on the use as well as on the costs and benefits of non-invasive methods used to study dalle de verre windows"

This aspect could certainly be interesting, but it would deserve a more in-depth study and a section devoted to direct comparisons between the various techniques. The economic aspect, for example, is scarcely taken into consideration.

The paper is well written, there are only a few typos or errors to be corrected.

Author Response

Response to Reviewer 3

 

The paper presents the results of analyses of "dalle de verre windows", a particular type of stained glass consisting of glass and reinforced concrete, which has been widespread since around the middle of the 20th century. The aim of the study is to compare a number of non-destructive analysis techniques to determine the state of conservation of these windows, which have been scarcely studied to date. The comparison was carried out on two examples of "dalle de verre windows", both made in Switzerland but by two different artists.

 

Abstract

In my opinion, the abstract could be improved. For example, the abstract mentions non-destructive methods generically, but does not make explicit what they are. When I agreed to be a reviewer, as I could only read the abstract, I imagined that it was talking about infrared spectroscopy or X-ray fluorescence, techniques in which I am an expert, but I only found out later that it referred to electrical, magnetic, etc. techniques. The same applies to the choice of keywords.

The methods have been listed in the abstract. The methods have been added to the keywords.

 

Introduction

The introduction is clear and complete and presents well this particular type of artwork, which is certainly little known. The part on damage is also complete and interesting, as is the presentation of the research objectives, which are very clear. The description of the specific case studies investigated here is also interesting.

Thank you!

 

Methods

This section presents all the non-destructive techniques used.

Is it possible to use the expression 'non-invasive' as well as 'non-destructive' techniques here? Most of these seem to be, but I am not an expert on these techniques so I ask the authors to clarify this.

In our field, non-destructive testing is the most common term. This may be due to the fact that there are methods  that are invasive but non-destructive, such as endoscopy. We would therefore prefer to stick ton non-destructive testing.

 

Generally speaking, perhaps there are some experimental parameters missing that are useful for replicating measurements by others.

We tried to describe the most relevant parameters. However, we decided not to add all the parameters for equipment, data acquisition, data processing and interpretation, as they are numerous and would go beyond the scope of this paper.

 

 

 

Results and Discussion

This section presents the results of the analyses carried out quite clearly, while, in my opinion, the comparison between the various techniques does not emerge sufficiently. For this reason, I cannot find a proper analysis protocol to refer to for future investigations on this same type of art material. In my opinion, it would be very useful to find instead a practical scheme to follow, which also really takes into account the cost and time of analysis.

Cost and time  are difficult to specify at the moment. We hope to describe these subjects in a future paper.

 

Conclusions

As with the discussion, the results of the study do not clearly emerge, in the sense that there is a lack of an operational protocol that can be followed when analysing this same type of material.

We hope to describe these subjects in a future paper. As our results are based on the inspection of two sites only, we would prefer not to extend this section.

 

Bibliography

The bibliography is adequate, self-citations amount to about 18% of the cited sources.

Thank you!

 

 

 

Language

 

The paper is well written, there are only a few typos or errors to be corrected.

Thank you!

 

 

 

Some specific comments are given below:

 

 

 

Title

Please check and standardise the capital letters in 'dalle de verre'.

I think the word 'IN' should be written in lower case.

The title has been changed to lower and upper case.

 

Lines 18-19

"Various non-destructive methods have been tested on two prominent dalle de verre examples"

What are these non-destructive methods? It might be interesting for a reader to know right from the abstract.

The suggested information was added to the abstract and keywords.

 

Are they also non-invasive methods? Please discuss this in more detail in the abstract or the paper.

In our field, non-destructive testing is the most common term. This may be due to the fact that there are methods  that are invasive but non-destructive, such as endoscopy. We would therefore prefer to stick ton non-destructive testing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Line 231

"infrared range [33][0]."

Please check the reference numbers.

In our version of the paper the reference numbers are correct. This may be due to a file conversion problem. We will try to make sure that there are no such problems with the revised version of our paper.

 

Figure 9

If I have understood correctly, Figure 9a does not show the thicknesses obtained with ultrasonics ('Figure 9 shows the uncalibrated thickness of the Annunciation medallion obtained with ultrasonics (left, a)', lines 292-293), but is a simple image indicating the 4 points where the analysis was performed. If I have understood correctly, the text and caption are misleading.

We agree that the text was misleading. It has been changed to distinguish between point measurements and results covering the whole surface.

 

 

 

Lines 303 and 313

Warning, references are missing.

In our version of the paper there are no missing references. Maybe a conversion problem? We will try to make sure that there are no such problems with the revised version of our paper.

 

 

Lines 316-317

"However, this assumption has not yet been confirmed and needs to be tested by further investigations."

What other investigations could be done to investigate the matter further?

The requested information has been added.

 

 

Lines 351-352

"In Fribourg, the electrical resistivity of the was very high suggesting complete carbonation."

Please check this sentence because it seems incomplete.

True, we have completed this sentence.

 

 

Lins 367-368

"The inspections have provided information on the use as well as on the costs and benefits of non-invasive methods used to study dalle de verre windows"

This aspect could certainly be interesting, but it would deserve a more in-depth study and a section devoted to direct comparisons between the various techniques. The economic aspect, for example, is scarcely taken into consideration.

We agree that this would be interesting. However, this would go beyond the scope of this paper. We hope to provide further information based on future work.

 

 

Comments on the Quality of English Language

The paper is well written, there are only a few typos or errors to be corrected.

We have corrected the text where appropriate.

Author Response File: Author Response.docx

Round 2

Reviewer 1 Report

The comments that I submitted previously have not been taken into account, only the suggestions:

"It is presented the results of each technique but they are difficult to understand for people who do not know anything about physics. I recommend explaining better what we are seeing in the figures.

In addition, the results are not compared with analyses in other windows. Is it the first time that the techniques are applied to stained glass windows? Why these techniques and not others were chosen?

In Conclusions, I recommend making a table comparing the different techniques, if they make punctual analyses or not, what type of information you obtain, if it is needed to access from both sides or not, its usability, its price..."

Author Response

The comments that I submitted previously have not been taken into account, only the suggestions:

"It is presented the results of each technique but they are difficult to understand for people who do not know anything about physics. I recommend explaining better what we are seeing in the figures.

We have added explanations and rewritten parts of the description of the methods.

 

In addition, the results are not compared with analyses in other windows. Is it the first time that the techniques are applied to stained glass windows? Why these techniques and not others were chosen?

We have stated explicitly that this is a first attempt. We also added an unpublished reference (Golobardes 2021) to clarify that we describe a novel approach for the inspection of dale de verre.

 

In Conclusions, I recommend making a table comparing the different techniques, if they make punctual analyses or not, what type of information you obtain, if it is needed to access from both sides or not, its usability, its price..."

The table has been extended (Table2)  and the price for the equipment has been added.

Reviewer 2 Report

Ok

Author Response

Reviewer 2 only wrote "ok" in the second revision. We therefore assume that there are no changes required.